Tournament Discussion Topic#2

[Shark]

A valid point indeed; I guess we can't force rain's buds to come in if they don't want to.

Still would be great though.

[Rainmaker]

meh, i can care less whether they join or not. i'll still get kick their ass anyway.

edited:

i am, however, quite concerned about the future of this community. we, as a community, may want to find a solution to the topic above, if we want to grow.

[Tailsnake]

Maybe we could make the league design board Staff only? People would have to PM thier designs tp us to add them, and we'd handle modifications.

[Rainmaker]

I was thinking something along that line, but it's kinda tricky -- trust. I dont' know if this is an issue here, although I haven't heard anything about it.

Beside that, we might have to re-work the rules a bit too. like penalties for challenges to encourage careful consideration of each battles.

[Purist]

I was talking about making PM the only method of submitting designs for the Company Tourney, but then I don't remember who shot it down.

I think that eventually, we'll have to put permanent bans on the 81G and WH05BP, among others that should be discussed as well, to put a control on "copies" and promote originality. What you all have said is true indeed, and I think that new rules and requirements should be discussed in Staff Board immediately; we can still keep the conversation going on here as well.

For the AI tourney, I think the PM-only rule should be enforced, and that we should designate one person who's not joining the tourney to receive all of the designs via PM, and then giving them to rainmaker (I'm assuming that he's running it) and others facilitating once design submission ends and the tourney begins.

Back to the topic about the concerns for the league, I think that it seems to be "declining" because it lacks the appeal that tourney's have. Waves of people submitted designs for the Company Tourney once it got going and we quickly got 24. I wonder why...

[AtrumCustodis]

. . . ban on the 81G? . . . but Ominis uses that and I created him before joining the League . . .

And yea I was also concerned about the having everything up for anyone to look at when I first came here. I eventually began to think less about it since Trust was a big thing here but the more people we get the more of a chance there is for corruption.

[Shark]

metatron said:

I was talking about making PM the only method of submitting designs for the Company Tourney, but then I don't remember who shot it down.

I think that eventually, we'll have to put permanent bans on the 81G and WH05BP, among others that should be discussed as well, to put a control on "copies" and promote originality. What you all have said is true indeed, and I think that new rules and requirements should be discussed in Staff Board immediately; we can still keep the conversation going on here as well.

For the AI tourney, I think the PM-only rule should be enforced, and that we should designate one person who's not joining the tourney to receive all of the designs via PM, and then giving them to rainmaker (I'm assuming that he's running it) and others facilitating once design submission ends and the tourney begins.

Back to the topic about the concerns for the league, I think that it seems to be "declining" because it lacks the appeal that tourney's have. Waves of people submitted designs for the Company Tourney once it got going and we quickly got 24. I wonder why...

Back in the company tourney I think we all agreed to make the designs public... (at that time).

Perhaps the league is declining, but I still think part of the current slump is because people are busy with summatives,exams,etc...

The tournaments are definitely more accessible. The rules/limits require just a glance to comprehend, but the league rules demand a little more examination.

Maybe thats a discouraging element... even Griffon needed a little clarification (whom we're still waiting to come back and post).

[Moon Walker]

rainmaker said:

Have you guys ever consider the challenges that is lost, when our AI/Part tunes and equipments are fully exposed for other architects to exploit it's weakiness? There is no longer a worthy opponent, when the majority of your opponents are pretty much counter ACs or clones of the best AC.

And when everyone design counter ACs, who wins? Who's really the better builder? It becomes a matter of who's the best counter AC builder. People abandon originality and build a piece of crap they have no personal attachment to.

People stop using missiles, b/c the moment an AC puts on missiles, another architect quickly equips a missile counter on their AC. Thus the victor of that battle has already been determine, beats the point of building an missile AC in the first place or even having a battle at all.

The drive for originality and creativity dies. The league and touranments becomes a simple, boring tug-of-war. Eventually, the league dies as well, because no one cares about it, for they have nothing to care for in the league.

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This is the discussion that's around the wifi community that I am a part of. Like the game, our parts and AI tunning are the most carefully kept secrets. Each player might get a good glance of their opponents, but can never fully copy the design, thus every fights, even though might be against the same opponent, no one can really be sure of victory.

This is one of the reasons many good players who I have duel with ABSOLUTELY refused to join this community or others of the like.

Of course, I am a hypocrite. As much I as I want to kept my ACFF stuffs secret, this wifi community only meet 2 or 3 times a month, I crave for opponents, thus the reason I am here.

Anyway, just thought I spit it out.

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Then what in the world world was I talking about when I first got here?

However I may have solution, but it may be drastic..... probably too drastic.

-Restart the league after we decide what parts to ban and limit how ACs use what parts. or better yet why not limit the total fire power of an AC? I calculated the BP's fire power, 1400 x 40 = 56000, make it a double and you get 112000 oh boy, that's too much.

I know that was way over the edge so just keep it as it is, till we start to get bored and care about tournaments more than the league, maybe then we might restart the league and post original designs rather than what we have now.

[Rainmaker]

The majority of people agrees that this fashion trend needs to end. There weren't ever a disagreement about that, even between you and I. But I still do not see how bans will solve anything, AGAIN the bans you speak of are not just drastic, it's a discrimination against any architect who plays the game a style other than that of yours.

Banning is never the solution.

I like the league better w/o bans, but also like it very much the way it is. What's important now is an "architect's right to privacy", this is about benefiting the whole community and perhaps even a chance of attracting more members

[Purist]

Well, then I guess that means the league will have to start all over, and everyone has to enter new designs...for the whole privacy protection thing to exist.

Hard indeed.

[Rainmaker]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAH. LMAO (AGAIN). Where is Shear? I want his "logical solution" on this matter. AAAAAAAHAHAHAHA.

(Sorry, I just cant help it. Blame Shear for all the laughing)

[Purist]

Did I say something stupid...?

[Rainmaker]

Jacques, you are TOO FUNNY!

No, you didn't say anything stupid, I just found it funny that's all.

edited:

disband the league and restart? AHAHAHA. I mean it crossed my mind once or twice when I was thinking about all this bans and privacy thing, but I don't know if the community will tolerate that. There are too many "what if..?"

Like, what if we restart, but got another mess up league? Then what? AAAHAHAHAHA.

(Blame shear for the laughing. His a funny guy.)

[Purist]

Oh yeah, how did the wif-fi battles go?

[Rainmaker]

Nothings happening until the weekends when there's beer in the house. It's a slow moving process. Each architect is given 2 weeks to build an AC. $20 entry fee, so it's getting kinda serious. And there are 16 of us... so it's real tense when we do get together, especially with the addition of some fine beers.

[AtrumCustodis]

Here is my great idea for the day. (Its shurly not The Game Corner)

We don't have to restart for the privacy thing. We put all the current hangers in the protected area thing like you said. Eventually people will be making mods for their ACs there for making any Data that was taken from the Hangers before the move unreliable. Yes, some people may not change their ACs, But Enough of the participants will to change the flow and therefor reducing the chance of a Counter-AC.

[Rainmaker]

That IS a great idea. Hmmmm.

[Purist]

Sounds fair enough. Now we have to wait for shear to decide whether or not to make it so that an architect can only view their own league AC's (I don't know about designer hangar, because some architects have their league AC's on it...), and decide whether or not he's going to make some areas of the board mods only.

[Rainmaker]

Now, I am thinking to myself...

What is the logical solution in this case? Hmmmm.

[AtrumCustodis]

The designer hangar is there for people to show off any other ACs they want to. Its not official. If people don't want their league and or Tourney ACs there then they should take them off or Not put All the info there.

[Purist]

True, but even if an architect feels that his/her hangar should be public domain, it's still going to be out there for people to do some "thorough research."

Let's just say that Rainmaker decides to put his league AC's in his designer hangar beause he's got pride in all of his AC's, and a huge wave of members storm in, wanting to fight their way to #1. Seeing that Rainmaker's hangar has the champ, wouldn't it be tempting for them to design a "counter" or an AC that's based off of V2 as a starting AC?

I'm suffering from paranoia, sorry. But, in any case, great ideas, Atrum.

[AtrumCustodis]

lol Thanks

But if he does want to let people see his League designs then let him post then in the Designer Hanger. Its his choice.

[Rainmaker]

metatron said:

True, but even if an architect feels that his/her hangar should be public domain, it's still going to be out there for people to do some "thorough research."

Let's just say that Rainmaker decides to put his league AC's in his designer hangar beause he's got pride in all of his AC's, and a huge wave of members storm in, wanting to fight their way to #1. Seeing that Rainmaker's hangar has the champ, wouldn't it be tempting for them to design a "counter" or an AC that's based off of V2 as a starting AC?

I'm suffering from paranoia, sorry. But, in any case, great ideas, Atrum.

LOL. Welcome to my side of the room.

[O-G]

though some of you may not like it, since we want this privacy thing to take place, start the privacy corner and then allow anyone who wants to make mods give them a week of free modding to their ACs, that way we dont have to wait forever(like me) trudging through all the counter ACs to make cash and wracking up losses, we just make the new mods immediatly and evryone has new ACs basicly

[Moon Walker]

rainmaker said:

Banning is never the solution.

Not it never was. but if this doesn't force people to get creative, what will?

rainmaker said:

I like the league better w/o bans, but also like it very much the way it is. What's important now is an "architect's right to privacy", this is about benefiting the whole community and perhaps even a chance of attracting more members

For a while, till their ACs get to face ACs like OMEGA which is nearly an unstoppable AC.
Why do you think people quit in the first place? because they can't bear losing again and again by an AC meant to win only, ok they make counter ACs but they lose money like most architects here but then what? they meet other tough ACs and think of another till they're flat broke.

So what's the solution to this, just control... we need to control what ACs can be built and what can not, when I first joined, I really imagined that one day most of the ACs here will have dual bazookas/ grenade launcher combos/ BP and 81G. believe me, if the current ACs with any of the mentioned combos don't drop out, my expectation will be inevitable.

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As for the private hangers, don't you think that that would just worsen the case, I mean anyone could go against a dual BP design without knowing, no?